Make It Big In Games - Latest Comments in Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Kelly Asay — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:46:00 -0000

Your experience and insight will be a huge benefit to developers sharp enough to read this blog, and pay attention to the advice. --Kelly

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeremy Alessi — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:16:31 -0000

In my experience Mac users are 10X as receptive to games as PC users. This is what I was saying about picking the hottest platform first.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Josh Engebretson — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:03:13 -0000

I supported Windows/OSX with MoM. We also released at probably the absolute worst time for OSX... with the change from PPC to Intel and compatibility issues between 10.3 and10.4

Supporting/updating multiple binary incompatible installations as a small indie company is not something I'm chomping at the bit to do again.

I'm really excited by what is happening with Netbooks... perfect fit for a light client and will run on Laptops/Desktops too :) Good article Jeff!

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

joshuadallman — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:21:40 -0000

Porting costs, even with Torque, and to a micro-sized developer every dollar counts. My strategy was to develop the Windows version, test that out on the market to gauge publisher and player interest, then if the test went well to port to OS-X. That way if the game didn't stick, I could move on without wasting coder and QA dollars to port to platforms that it won't do any better on than the original platform. Even so I still have platform envy as I'm still on the old 3 at best.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeff Tunnell — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:04:57 -0000

You used Torque. Don't you have it on OS-X?

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

joshuadallman — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:10:13 -0000

My latest game runs on Windows only. I should have used your game engine instead. I think I have platform envy.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

The 1nteger — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 06:17:08 -0000

Good perspective too Jeremy the only thing I would add is that sponsorship / licensing your game is where the real money is in free flash games ($100's to the $10,000 of dollars with some people quoting up to $20-30,000 in sponsorships alone), of course this is top tier.

The article below is useful for learning about where the real money is in flash

Where's The Cash For Flash?:
http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...

Hope I haven't gone too off-topic, good points anyway! :)

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeff Tunnell — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:02:37 -0000

I don't really understand how using somebody's game engine or library gives them a share of the ownership of your work. I would never use any technologies that required me to pay a back end royalty or have any ownership over my product. Maybe you can explain in a little more detail?

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeff Tunnell — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:59:47 -0000

Here is Jeremy's reply before he edited it:

It's tough attempting to disagree with you ;) Initially, when I read this blog I was just going to post something agreeable (it is after all excellent advice) but I decided that wouldn't be any fun.

For the bigger picture, I think this comes down to starting out vs. maximizing your game. If you're just starting out then you need to focus on the most profitable platform first and foremost and make the best possible use of it. If you're trying to maximize something which is already successful then I say go cross platform.

I think the question to ask is, which platform should a developer start with? Flash is cool, but with Mochi Ads paying only $0.35 CPM's you need millions upon millions of games played to start making any money. Some guy posted his monthly totals on Indie Gamer and he got $214 for 620,000 plays of his game. On the contrary Martin Schultz (who had done some Torque stuff in the past) put up a fun but simple game (approximately 1-2 months dev time) for the iPhone and sold 915 copies on day 1. This isn't iShoot mind you. This is a guy who's done up 4 or 5 apps and has improved sales with each new one that he puts out there.

I don't know if that Mochi Ad report was correct but if it is then it means you'd need 2,000 people to play your Flash game to equal 1 sale of a 99 cent iPhone app. By that measure, I say go cross platform but pick the hottest platform first and maximize the heck out of that one before shifting your attention elsewhere.

Back on the spiritual level I think it's safe to say that you should also support the platform you're personally most excited about. People can throw numbers around all day long but there's no substitute for an inspired piece of work.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeremy Alessi — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:14:49 -0000

By all means add it back then ;)

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeff Tunnell — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:18:15 -0000

Jeremy, did you edit a post here? I got an awesome response from you in Disqus email, but on the site there is this shorter one. I don't think we are disagreeing at all. I would like to put up your longer response which is one of the best comments ever. I'll wait to see if this comment system flushes it out.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeremy Alessi — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 05:00:39 -0000

You're always putting your faith in some system no matter what you develop for. It just depends on how that system reacts for you that determines if it's a viable business. Lately I've seen more indies go full time than ever before because Apple's system works. It's the perfect blend of PC (open market) and console (standardized hardware) development. How long it'll last is another question entirely of course.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

roger — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:55:00 -0000

Agree with your points here. Also want to add that the ability to port your game across platforms, operating systems, and frameworks will very much depend on your choice of libraries. If you choose to develop on libraries that only work on one operating system, on one framework, on one hardware platform, then you're at the mercy of the library owners. You've allowed those owners to take a share of ownership of your work.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeff Tunnell — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:52:42 -0000

Jeremy, I guess you can focus on just one platform if you don't feel you need to make a business of your Indie game development. That is what is great about being Indie though, you can make choices that fit your needs and lifestyle. It is my belief that if you really want to control your own destiny that focusing on just one platform, especially a closed system like the iPhone would be a mistake. What if Apple decides tomorrow that they will half the royalties paid to developers? What if they simply decide they don't like your game and will not put it in the store. I realize these things are not probable, but they are possible. If your risk is spread across a bunch of different platforms, the odds of all of them going bad at the same time are very low.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeremy Alessi — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:27:51 -0000

The tools have made it so much easier to go cross platform these says that eventually we really won't think of our hardware as the platform. In fact they'll all be "windows" with a view of the net.

To play devil's advocate though, what if you hate PC, Mac, and Linux development? If we're controlling our own destiny why not just work on the platform you love? I'm having a blast with the iPhone and have all but forgotten about "ball and chain" systems.

The other day I was talking with an old student of mine from the career shadowing program I volunteered for. He's a sophomore at Digipen now and it's so cool to see how far he's gone since I met him during his 8th grade year of middle school. Anyway, I told him how I was developing for the iPhone and he sort of shrugged it off and asked me if I was still going to develop for the PC anymore. I told him eventually I would but deep down I don't feel a need.

I hate worrying about multiple display drivers, varied resolutions, sound drivers, non-standard input. These are all barriers to a designers original vision. PC game development is like the fast food of game development. You have to allow the player to make many decisions like whether or not they want extra pickles or to hold the onions.

On the flip side take a Nintendo game. There are no options, no varied control schemes, no display tweaks. They serve the game up just as it was meant to be played on locked down hardware. In my opinion that's the best way to play and develop.

If you go to a nice restaurant you don't change the dish the chef has prepared for you. You go for the experience of something new. I think games are experiences for you to wrap your head around not for the designer to cook "your way right away".

My favorite games are created this way and god willing this is the way I'd like to develop games as well. Some games can port from one piece of hardware to another without losing something or in some cases they can actually gain something. That doesn't always apply.

In your case starting with Flash is great because it is the lowest common denominator. If you have the resources to start there and work out I think that's great. For anyone with a smaller team (3 or less) I think focusing on a core platform they really enjoy is key.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeff Tunnell — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:59:12 -0000

Torque is still a great way to go. In fact, our "heavy client" version will still have something to do with Torque. For most people Torque is the only way to go because you get the source code for a decent price.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeff Tunnell — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:56:05 -0000

Double posting seems to be a Disqus problem. I have been getting quite a few of them.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Jeff Tunnell — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:55:18 -0000

You can get a beta version of PBE right now by going to http://pushbuttonengine.com. Ben is signing up new people weekly.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

DaveMyers — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:10:00 -0000

Great article as always.

Four or so years ago I wanted precisely what you are talking about with your new engine - for exactly the reasons you state. I was using T2D/TGB and wanted a web version, but someone told me that a web version wasn't important. It's obvious nowadays what I knew then, which is essentially the contents of this article.

My first game with Lumpy is using iTGB primarily because I have significant development experience using the Torque technology. It is also appealing because it can target several OSes.

But rest assured once you guys ship the engine I'll be onboard. I love Torque, warts and all, but taking advantage of the rich third-party offerings that the Flash community provides will likely make my game development projects come together quicker. Of course, only time will tell on that, but I have high hopes.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

The 1nteger — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 07:34:41 -0000

(I said 'couldn't agree more' last time, so I edited it out for originalities sake)

You guys sound like your making many wise moves. You only have to think of things examples like bloons, scrabulous, iShoot (http://blog.wired.com/gadge... and many others to realise that these are themselves bona fide platforms/consoles as much as the mac, windows or the xbox. Reach is so important, especially for independents and that happens to be one of Flash's middle names!

I thought that TGB might be the easiest route to iphone (via iTGB), but if you guys have a magic button to make flash content work on iphone I'd pay for that alone (let alone the engine). 8)

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

The 1nteger — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 07:34:32 -0000

Oh man, double post again (prefer the one below), bit slow in the refresh this Jeff.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

MikeRowley — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 06:13:49 -0000

Interesting concept. I don't know that it would work for every type of game, but for the majority, it probably would, and would also most likely be the best route to take.

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

houen — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 05:47:45 -0000

Wow - that looks really nice! Does this game's completion mean the Push Button Engine will be avaiable for the public soon? (even in beta)

Re: Putting Your Game On OS-X and Linux is Not Enough

Mich — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:35:37 -0000

I love the terms you use in your blogs, such as "light client" vs "heavy client" and “too small to fail”

They always make me look at my own projects to see how I can apply the concepts. Great read as usual. Before I got my hands on a Mac, I had the mindset that I have no interest in creating for anything but Windows. After using a Mac for several months, and playing more web games, I am definitely not thinking the same way.

I've gone from Windows only to iPhone + Web + OS X + Windows, which is a pretty big jump for me.

Great post as usual!